LIFE ’72 chapter 151.

The Greyhound bus left from the parking lot of Tenth Avenue on July 1 for a two day straight through all night is still hard to believe how much money was raised collecting bottles and papers door-to-door. We had paid the full cost of the conference for several teens and paid for the bus for everyone.

We were looking for something to identify our group from the other 1300 delegates about to decent on Green Lake. I don’t know how the final decision was made but we settled on sailor hats. It fit since we were a port city and the hats certainly helped us find one another in the crowd.

We made two stops along the road to pick up four lonely Americans. The first was Seattle at North Seattle Alliance and the second was along the highway near Moses Lake. There were two at each stop. Other than that and a few stops to buy a meal or change bus drivers (every eight hours) we plowed all day and all night. I remember the first stop was in Montana. We got hung up there longer than expected, as the replacement driver had not yet arrived. It was the middle of the night and there was nothing open, not even their snack bar. No regular buses were scheduled and they did not open it specially for us. At least we were out of the bus for a while — in the dark.

American Baptist Association at Green
Lakes, WI Conference Center

Excitement was high as we traveled across the country even though it began to feel like we would never get there. LIFE ’72 was becoming a teen conference that came every three or four years. The speakers this year were Dr. Mark Lee, President of Simpson College and Dr. Nathan Bailey superintendent of the Midwest District. Music was provided by a 125 voice teen choir under the direction of Bill Weston and music groups from each of the four Alliance colleges.

Roger William Hall - meeting and sleeping hall.

Meetings were held in Pillsbury Hall and housing was in various Inns on the ground and one in the city. The conference grounds slept only 1000 and over 300 were housed off site and bused in every day. We were on the grounds, thankfully.

Afternoons were free to explores, participate in LIFE Olympics — a collection of different sports competitions. I know we competed. We had the talent and enough to field many teams. I just don’t know which ones we won (assuming of course that we won everything we were in). Life Olympics had volleyball, softball, basketball, touch football, tennis and Ping-Pong with delegates competing from various districts. "

Moorhouse Hall,  the oldest building
on the grounds. circa 1890

This was my first year of C&MA Bible quizzing that I did not have a team. Naturally I had to check it out and connect with Bill and Faith Rouse and talk about my impending move to their part of the world. Competitions were great; Western Pennsylvania, South Pacific and West Central districts wcrc pitted against cach other for the championship. When the final buzzer rang it was Western Pennsylvania with 180 points. South Pacific with 110 and West Central with 70. The South Pacific team was mostly from the Long Beach Alliance Church were we would we be attending.

The return trip from LIFE was more eventful that I was hoping for. As expected the kids were wiped out, typical for teens returning from a camp. We were in, I believe, Montana when Sarah became ill. I was nervous most of the time at the conference concerned about her and her behavior. I knew things were not over with her but was praying it would be a good week for her and the rest of us, as it had been lately. She did fine on the trip out and while there, but she became so ill we needed to find a hospital. Easier said than done. The whole experience put everyone on edge.

Forgive me if I got this wrong, but it seems to me we had to leave her there and one of our counselors stayed with her. I was worried that some of her problems had to do with the demons tormenting her and I think I was right. The other side is that it was making her sick. The rest of us when on home.

THE DECISION chapter 150

Della and I talked and prayed about this move. We had managed to save enough money that it might pay for the education, but I would likely have to work so we could live from month to month. If we moved, what could I do to earn enough money to help us survive?

It was only a week after council when we heard from Rex. It felt like an eternity. He recommended we go to Biola and Talbot in La Mirada, California. There I would be able to complete my bachelor’s degree in one year and because I would be continuing on in the same field, finish my master’s in the second year. Of course I would have to write a master thesis in the same year to pull that off, but it could be done. That was easy for him to say. Most people took another whole year to complete their thesis. Besides, what would I write about?

Biola – Talbot were the most likely choices for my education. They were also on the west coast and closer for us to travel. No one was going to pay for this move. They were a little more expensive than some others, but the time would be shorter because of the one year masters program. I had introduced Della to my friends Bill and Faith Rouse from Long Beach California who we met a council. Before we made a decision, I wanted to know how close we would be too Long Beach. The map didn’t help that much. It was in the area, but then this was going to be the great Los Angeles area. How long did it take to get around?

I had met Bill and Faith through International Bible quizzing. They came to competitions with the South Pacific District. I wanted to talk to them but not before we finalized our decision. I thought they might be able to help us transition. I needed to register, find housing and get a job. The job would have to wait until we got there

I called the Rouses (Bill and Faith) and told them we were planning on moving to La Mirada and if all went well, we could be there in September. They were both excited. “That is near our part of the world. It would be wonderful to have you here for awhile.” They said that if we came, they would do all they could to help us. I said we really needed a place to live and I would need a job. Since this move was going to come up quick, there would not be enough time to get Della a resident card and she would have to come in to the USA on a visitor’s visa. We could only get one for two years. That was enough time if I could get finished on two years. We swallowed that pill and decided we would have to do just that. God would be with us.

So we began to make plans for this grand adventure in trusting God. How would we survive? Could I actually get everything done in two years? I wasn’t the greatest student in the world, just average (B- at CBC). It became very clear to both of us that this was Gods leading. We were excited. A door had opened and we would walk through. This was going to take more discipline that I had ever exerted to this point in my life. Every minute would count. Della wanted some assurance that I would be both a husband father in addition to being a student. To this point I had been a workaholic trying to prove I was worthy to be in ministry. I would pour my life out for the church and not always do the same for my family. Della said that would have to change. I agreed. She would be stuck at home with two preschoolers and I would have the car to get to school and whatever work I could find.

I filled out the application and got all my transcripts together and sent it off. When accepted I was told there was the wife of one of the professors who worked with married students to help them find housing. There was none at the school.

It was late June before most arrangements were made. I announced what we were going to do in early July. I wanted the kids to know we were leaving, There had not yet been an official announcement from the pulpit. I wanted them to hear it from me.

There was still much to do. I had a large group of kids to take to LIFE ’72 in Green Lakes, Wisconsin near the end of July. I had to find a bus to take our group across country. I now knew how many were going. If not mistaken, we had about 40 going. It was going to take a big bus.

I had no trouble telling the board what I was going to do, but telling the kids broke my heart. I did not understand why God was having me leave them so early.

Next I called Bill and Faith to tell them we were coming. I also contacted High school friends Betty and Tom Chase to ask for help. I knew I was going to need all the help I could get.

RESIGNATION chapter 149

It was early May 1972 when I knew our time was up in Vancouver. Pastor Brooks had tendered his resignation and all the staff was expected to resign as well. The purpose was to give the next senior pastor the freedom to choose whom they wanted. I understood the rules, but I wasn’t happy. I liked my ministry and wanted to stay.

The board accepted my resignation and was open to me staying until they found a their next senior pastor. However, I was to move before that person actually arrived. I was dismissed with some harsh criticism. They were unhappy that I had not filled every ministry position, as had my predecessor. That was said in spite of telling me they did not want any arm-twisting. They were disappointed that I had not finished adding the baseboards and unfinished trim at the house. I didn’t even bother saying they never ask me to that that. It was an unstated expectation and if they had asked I would have told them I lacked the skills.  No one really knew how nervous I was at making house repairs.

The only person that really affected was myself. They had already made the decision to send Al off to Richmond to plant a church. This was almost a forced decision bu8t one he wanted. There was a large Bible study group and they wanted their own church. The only conflict was that Tenth Avenue did not want to lose that large group of people, but they wanted Al to move on. Anyway, Al had a place to go. He was no longer in contention to become the next senior pastor.

We had no idea what we were going to do. It was very clear that the Canadian Pacific district superintendent was not going to help. He didn’t want me at Tenth Avenue in the first place and wasn’t bothered by me leaving. I felt like the only place I could go was back to the Canadian Midwest district were Rev. Orthner was still the D.S. But that did not look promising. The only church large enough to afford me was the one I left and they had a man. Besides, you can’t go back.

Near the end of May we left for Oakland, California to attend the general council of the denomination. I figured I would look around and see what contacts I could make and maybe something would turn up. If that didn’t happen we had decided we would move back to Red Deer and I would try and get on with Alpha Dairy.

On the drive down Don Patterson and his wife traveled with us. When we stopped at the U.S. border we got held up because Don had been born in China. He said that always happens, “I don’t look Chinese enough for them.” His parents had been missionaries to China.

While there I was putting out feelers everywhere and to everyone I knew — which wasn’t very many people. My contacts were limited. I was talking to David Rambo President of Canadian Bible College and Rex Boda the academic dean about my situation. They invited Della and I to join them for lunch the next day. We had a good time and at the end of the meal they suggested I get my masters degree and come back to CBC and teach Christian education.

They wanted me to return to school, get my Masters degree and than come and teach at Canadian Bible College? Della and I just looked at one another. Me, back at CBC! After all my problems, the idea was intriguing. Could this be God’s plan? Was Vancouver some sort of temporary transition place for us to make this move? The catch was they could not help pay for my education, but they would guarantee a job when I had graduated. I told them I had never thought of teaching and had no idea where to go to school. I didn’t even have a bachelor’s degree, only a BRE. If they would do the research and find out where I could complete my education in the shortest amount of time at the lowest price, we would consider it. They said they would look around and see what they could come up with, but it might take a few weeks.

The next day we had lunch with Walter and Doris Boldt and told them about the offer. He felt very positive about this and promised that if we decided to go to school, he would send us $50 a month to help with expenses. We took this as a sign from God that doing this was the right decision.

It was something to think about, but we would have to wait until we heard back from Dave or Rex. 

FRIENDS chapter 148

     We made a neat connection with Phil and Helen Jenion after we moved into Vancouver proper. Phil had found a storefront on Kingsway. I drove by his place everyday on my way to work and loved watching it come together. It was a cute little storefront where he opened his record store. I enjoyed helping him with some of the design ideas and graphics. He is a gifted musician. He also became uncle Phil to Rodney.

Dale and Joan Lundstrom had two adopted boys and since we also had two adopted children we became good friends. Rod eventually got over Reed having bit him in Sunday school and they became friends, at least as much as three year olds are friends.

My friendship with Al McVety continued to grow and we became regulars at Captain Cooks Restaurant. That was good for us, but not so good for our boss. There were many times I wished I had known and worked with W. H. Books in his heyday, But I had come near the end of his ministry and he was not the man he had once been. It seemed like his wife was working hard to help him remember and hold things together. That may have even been part of the problem when he hired me to come to Vancouver. Now that I am near that age myself, I understand better the stresses that age can bring. I did not know his concerns specifically, but he struggled with having chosen Al as his heir apparent. The people really liked Al and that bothered our boss.

When it came to friends, there was no one like the youth of the church. I hung out with several of them nearly every Saturday morning. I drove along the road beside them while they went door to door begging for newspapers and bottles. I always laughed when we took bottles to be recycled. We brought them in whole and as they were counted, the bottles were smashed. I have no idea how many bottles we collected. It would have been fun to keep a count. Beer and liquor bottles definitely out numbered pop bottles and they smelled.

On April twenty-third, there was a knock at our door and twenty or more of the youth gang came in singing happy birthday to me. I was surprised. Della being who she was began to worry immediately about whether or not we had any anything to serve them. No problem, they brought a cake with them. Not an ordinary cake, but a very special one with a contribution from each one. The cake was either an angel food or bunt cake. Each one was told to bring a topping of their choice and pour it over the cake. The center was overflowing and looked somewhat like a volcano about to explode. The stuff was running down the sides and filled the center and edge of the plate.

They were acting rather strange and wanted to drop the cake off and take off immediately. That made us suspicious. Taking a better look at the cake it was a collection of the strangest “cake toppings.” I had ever seen.

There were ones you might expect: chocolate, white and some other colors of frosting. There were some berries and from there — unbelievable was all I can say. I never took inventory of all that was on that cake but they were like: pickles, olives, sauerkraut, peas, corn, syrup, spaghetti and many more indescribable items. It looked disgusting.

Not the actual cake. This one looks way to nice.

There was no way I was letting them out without sharing the joy of my birthday cake. We dug out some plates and forks, cut up the cake and served it to all. They turned up their noses and acted all grossed out. So I said, “You thought it was good enough for me, but not for you. You cannot leave until you have least one bite.” You should have seen them trying to fine something editable in the slop on their plate. Some held their noses, other screwed up their face and a few, very few, decided to act like it was the best cake they ever had.

I loved it. I love them for bring it. I loved them even more for eating it. When they left we had a garbage can full of the ickiest cake you had ever seen. Della and I both laughed so hard we could hardly get to sleep that night.

I didn’t know it yet, but I was going to miss this group.

BRIAN chapter 147

It was a bright sunny day as Al and I sat in a window booth at Captain Cooks for lunch. The meal was over and we were just shooting the breeze when we noticed a blind man at the back of the church. He appeared to be trying to find a way in. We both knew that was going to be impossible. Even if he found a door, it would be locked.

We scrambled back across the car lot that allowed us a clear view from the restaurant to the church and found him near the door by the kitchen. Al had another appointment so he left. I introduced myself and took him to my office.

Brian was young, early twenties, about my height and build (5’10”) with very dark brown hair. He had arrived from Winnipeg looking for help and saying he had been referred to us from Central Alliance. He had the right name of the pastor but that meant nothing. I called the church to check him out. Brian was born with sight and as a young child was running with scissors and fell on them. He lost one eye immediately and the other gradually dimmed.

While in Saskatoon I was given the task of meeting with everyone who came to the church looking for a handout. Many people with cars claimed to have just arrived from some place or other and most knew the name of the pastor at a local Alliance church. All mentioned they were referred to our church by the pastor. I learned quickly they had picked up that name on the church reader board or from a yellow pages ad. I never met a one who had attended the church they claimed. The pastor had never heard of them.

In Brian’s case the pastor did know him and did refer him. Brian explained that he was moving here because of a job offer and that there was a downtown residence for the blind where he was trying to get a room.

He had been here over a week. He could not get into the apartment for the blind until someone moved out and he was not hired for the job he was promised. He needed to find a place to stay for a month or so and needed help finding a job. He had been renting a room in a flophouse and was running out of money.

I called Della and we took him in. Rodney liked Brian. He seemed to have no comprehension that Brain could not see. He would bring his toys to show Brian and they played on the floor together.

It turned out we had a lot to learn from Brian. He enjoyed playing with the toys and he loved to “watch” TV. He had an uncanny ability to follow a TV story.

He had worked in a photo processing dark room in Winnipeg and was looking for that kind of work as his first choice. We went over his possible jobs, made a list of businesses that might work and the next day I planned to drive him to the various places to see if he could get a job.

That morning he called me into is room to ask about a pair of pants he had bought in Winnipeg for his job interview. He wanted to be sure of the color and wanted his clothes to work together. He handed me the pants and I got angry. The pants were not hemmed and looked like they had small holes up and down the leg. At lest one was a cigarette burn. How could someone sell him these pants? It was clear he had never worn them. He could not go out wearing those pants. I walked to my closet of six suits, pulled one out and had him try it on. It fit perfectly and out we went job hunting.

I had to laugh. At every place we stopped the person asked me about Brian’s skills and abilities even when Brian initiated the conversation. When I told them he wanted the job not me, ask him, they repeated the question louder. I would say, "He’s blind, not deaf."

I got him hooked up with the bus system routes from my place to downtown and he took off most days hitting all the various agencies that might be of help to him.  He got around very well. All you have to do is ask and most people are very helpful he would say.

Living with us was very difficult. When he would return on the bus he would be lost. The neighborhood was too quiet. He preferred to live around noise. It helped him with directions and traffic. We were new in the neighborhood and once he got more than a block away, we were unknown. He wandered before finding us. He wanted to get downtown as soon as possible. Then came an early opening at the apartment he wanted and I moved him to a neighborhood so noisy I would not be able to sleep at night. It was over near Bernard and prefect for him.

When he left us, he still had no job, but he was getting some government aid and said he was going to manage just fine. He did get a job processing photos in a dark room eventually. He already knew how.

There was a day we were at my office when he insisted I pray for his healing. I told him had never seen it happen because I prayed. I did not have that gift. After much discussion, I finally agreed and prayed. When I finished he said, “I still can’t see.” “I can heal no one, only God can do that. I do not know what God has for you.” He was disappointed and felt like he would never see again. I suspected as much but said nothing.

THE CAMPOUT chapter 146

I did not have time to think, only react. A large rock was aimed at my head and coming fast. I began to move to the right when suddenly — the rock stopped right in front of my face like it had hit a wall. It seemed to slowly slide down that invisible wall, hit the ground and slowly roll away lying harmless as a rag. It did not hit me. I was not hurt. My first response was to thank God.

When I looked up at Sarah there was fire in her eyes. They seemed to pierce my soul. As her eyes began to clear she turned gray and sat on a bolder near the stream. A girl near her went over to see if she was all right. She looked exhausted. I had no doubt she was wiped out. She strength and spirit were spent. Demons destroy a person.

I stood transfixed by what had just happened. Had my eyes deceived me? Did a rock flying toward me just stop near my head and fall harmlessly to the ground? The young lady with Sarah said, “You could have been killed.” I had no doubt that was the point and God had intervened. I bent down to inspect the rock. It might have been ten pounds or so. I don’t know if it would have killed me with the impact, but it would have messed me up pretty bad. The only way it might have killed me would likely have been from the fall. Had I rolled down the hill there was a cliff at the curve behind us. The drop would not have been far, but the rocks in the stream were jagged and the water was running swiftly.

It was the girl near Sarah who screamed when it happened. That caused the others ahead of us to turn and come running down the hill. I was tired just considering the possibilities. I sat on the ground and relayed the story to everyone’s amazement. God is good.

We only spent one night. The sun had pretty well dried our tents. It was mid afternoon when we left for the church. Parents were to meet us there at 4:00. It was after five when all had left. I went to the quiet of my office. The church was empty with the exception of Burt who was finishing up making sure things were ready for church the next morning.

I left the office light off. Some light filtered through the secretarial office from their outside window and then through the pass through window to my enclosed office. There was only enough light to see where everything was located. As usual, my desk was piled with papers. I pushed them aside, lay my head on the desk and sobbed and prayed. I was overwhelmed by Gods love and grace.

I was there for quite some time. I did not check the clock before leaving, but Della said she was expecting me earlier. We sat at the kitchen table where I told her my story. We both wept. Meanwhile God must have been entertaining our children, as they played on the floor of the family room the whole time oblivious to their parent’s conversation.

That night we prayed for Sarah and the group. I did not want to see any of the kids adversely affected by what was going on with Sarah. We prayed that their memories would not be scarred and that they would remain close to Jesus. We both slept like babies that night. We drifted off shortly after putting the kids to bed.

I have no memory of church the next morning. I cannot imagine that the events were not talked about, but I don’t remember. In writing about my time in Vancouver, I have heard from two of those now grandparent youths. Their memories are vague. I prayed that for all. I did not want them terrified by what was happening.

I have always been surprised that no parents ever approached me demanding to know what was going on. I know of none who decided their kids could not come to youth group because of the problems we were facing. In reality it seemed to be just the opposite. After the big event in the North Vancouver home, attendance was steady and growing. It was like no one wanted to miss what God might do next. More even showed up at prayer meeting. God was at work.

GRAD BANQUET AND ALLOUETTE LAKE chapter 145

I lay still for a moment trying to make sense of what had just happened. Did I really fly through the air without anyone touching me? I had been on my knees. The room was deathly silent for a while. Mrs. Brooks was the first to come check up on me, then the others gathered about. Meanwhile Sarah was lying on the floor perspiring heavily and exhausted by all she had been through.

I was fine. Only my psychic was hurt. I didn’t believe what had just happened and didn’t know if my wife would believe me when I told her about it later. It seemed that no one in the room knew what to say. There was bewilderment without question. I asked if people saw that. They all had. I stood up, looked at Sarah and said we cannot continue to put her through this. Mrs. Brooks prayed a blessing and we left. I drive Sarah home.

We did not speak for a very long time. Finally she asked what happened tonight. “Do you not know?” “I remember sitting in a chair and people gathering around to pray and when I woke up I was on the floor. “We prayed for you and some more demons left you.” All she said was “Good.” We did not speak again until I told her good night.

There were a few more small incidents between that one a campout we had at the end of the school year. By my record there had already been slight over 50 demons that came out. It was hard to believe there would still be more.

We had planned a big Friday night grad dinner in North Vancouver at a restaurant that advertized for people to come on Sunday with their church bulletin for either a discount or a free meal for your pastor. I’m not sure which. That was way to long ago. Dale, Jim and a few other guys went with me to Allouette Lake (Maple Ridge) to set up the tents for a Grad outing the night after the Grad Banquet. People brought their gear and changed after the banquet for the ride to the camp site.

When we planned this event it was suppose to be a nice weekend. When we left the restaurant it was misting and the cloud covering was threatening a downpour. We got to our campsites and everyone got settled, a fire was built and most were standing around the fire trying to stay warm. There were plans for that night but they all began to fall apart as the heavens opened and it rained on our parade. It was gentle as first and most scrambled into tents to say stay dry. As it continued to rain rather hard people would come and go from the fire and gathered under a tree to keep some of the water off.

Sarah made the outing with us and I was determined to do my best to keep an eye on her. I’m not sure why I agreed to let her come, but I must have. She was not heading into a tent so neither was I. All who were still awake stayed near the fire. Writing about this now it feels like I stayed up all night. I don’t know if that is what happened or not, but I was tired.

As the rain stopped the sun was coming up. It was going to be a clear and beautiful day. A few began to get things ready for breakfast – pancakes and bacon I think. I don’t remember coffee, but I know I needed some to keep me going.

We sang a bit, shared a lot and I gave a short devotional. Then everyone was free to explore till lunch. They went hiking, fishing (wanted some fish for lunch, but we had a backup just in case). We broke up into three or four groups and went our separate ways. I was going to do whatever Sarah was going to do. She went hiking.

We went up a mountain f\ollowing a stream with boulders and many small falls. It was beautiful. I kept a sharp eye on Sarah and made sure I stayed behind her, everyone stopped from time to time, to observe, throw stones, walk a tree trunk to the other side, sip ice-cold mountain water or rest. We all did. We were in no hurry and just needed to be back at camp about 1:00.

I was climbing up hill when I realized I had lost track of Sarah. I turned to see her about six feet behind me on the down side of the hill. She had let go of a small boulder. It was oblong and about a foot long with jagged edges. It was coming right at my head. By the time I saw it I could do nothing. I could not get out of the way. It was too close to my face to do anything. My eyes got big and I braced myself for impact.

THE FIRST TWO EXPLOSIONS chapter 144

There were a few weeks when I thought the strange things in Sarah’s life were over and then we would have another meeting and another two or three demons were cast out. I was confused. Since the whole experience was new to me I was always surprised that there was more going on. I believe it was March or April when the first big explosion occurred.

It was a relatively normal Bible study in a beautiful home in West Salem. There was a pretty good turnout. The living room was quite full and the floor was pretty crowded. We were midway through our time together when Sarah used her pin on a boy sitting next to her and he pushed her. He was sitting on her left side and this less than 90 pound thin little girl reached around with her left hand and lifted him off the floor and threw him a couple of feet away. The room quickly cleared a large space around her. Her strength was both amazing and shocking. I was looking right into her eyes and it was not the calm controlled Sarah I had seen much of the time. There was fire and anger as her face turned red and she began heavy breathing.

I took her into the master bedroom with Debbie and Vicki. I did not feel like I wanted to be alone. These two were my protection. I asked Jim Klassen to take over and lead a prayer time with the group. Jim was certainly capable. I never did speak with him about what happened after we left, but everyone was still there when we came out.

I was fearful for the girls I asked to come with me and with Sarah sitting on the floor steaming, we had a brief prayer time for ourselves cleaning out our lives and asking Gods protection as we entered into a battle with the enemy.

We then began casting out demons and the list was long. The strange names and single yet similar purposes came pouring out. She thrashed on the floor and a variety of harsh angry voices came from her throat. In many ways it was terrifying and I pushed forward until she just dropped like a wet dishrag lying limp on the floor. This was not something we planned to talk about with the rest of the group.

When we exited the room, some looked at us, but I was asked no questions. It was like God had entered that room and lay His hand of peace over that house. I had prayed that the house would be surrounded with the love of the Lord and everyone in it would be protected from harm. It was wonderful to walk into that room and see that had happened. The group was snacking and talking and enjoying just being together. I have no doubt they were curious. I would have been. But it felt like they were fine without a detailed explanation. I did say that Sarah was fine and God had relieved her of some very serious issues. I do not remember saying there were demons cast out, but I may have. It did seem that people knew something had happened even though they did not know it all.

Sarah’s mother came and picked her up. I went to meet her at the car and explain what happened that night. She was relieved and praised God.

It was because of all that had happened that night that a Sunday night experience a few weeks later was such a surprised. I believe a Canadian Bible College music group had sung at the evening service. Bill Rose was there and I asked if he would join us when Sarah’s parents came pleading for prayer as she was in a terrible way right then and had been all day.

We went to pastor Brooks office with Mr. Rose, Mr, and Mrs. Brooks and one other person. I can’t remember who that was. Mrs. Brooks suggested that Sarah sit on a chair in the center of the floor and that we gather around her to pray. We did. I gave leadership to the evening. It got harder and more challenging as the night went on. The voices were more angry than ever and the demons more fierce. This time someone was writing down the names and tasks as they screamed out of this little girl. I usually tried to remember and write them down after each previous event.

We had reached a very difficult moment. It seemed like we were at a stalemate but it was clearly not over. Sarah was now lying on the floor kicking and thrashing over near the bookshelves when she was suddenly still and a demon came screaming out of her yelling he was there to kill. In Jesus name I demanded that he identify who he was there to kill. The response was “you.” I was the target. I again demanded him to identify himself. In a most unique and powerful but calm strong and steady voice it said, “Satan.” I was immediately thrown across the room hitting the outside wall and rolling from my back over on my stomach. The entire room was stunned.

BEHIND THE PLATFORM chapter 143

A couple of Sundays later Sarah’s mother caught me in the hall behind the platform. It was obvious she had been crying. “Something must be done about Sarah. I can’t take what is happening to her and our home.”

While I had not met again with Sarah since out last visit, I was doing something — praying. I had to pray. I didn’t know what else to do. I had tried to find help but could find none. I read through my college notes and tried to do some research with limited success. Mostly I was praying that God would lift this cup from me. I was absolutely convinced that I was the wrong man for the job, but God seemed to be saying I was the right man. I had taken a few leadership and spiritual gifting tests and casting out demons was never on my gifting list. I wasn’t sure I was hearing God right. I put mom off.

She found me again the following Sunday evening and she had Sarah in tow. This time Sarah asked for help. “Will you pray with me that I can feel God?” I answered immediately that I would. How could I turn her down!

Della had stayed home that evening with the children. Rhonda had been fussy all day. I was grateful I would not be holding her and the kids up. Not knowing what was going to happen I took her and her mother into my office to pray. I began to pray asking God to remove the blocks in Sarah’s life so she could talk to Him. Almost immediately a harsh, deep guttural sounding noise replaced her normally very normally sounds. I had to open my eyes to see what was happening. I wasn’t even sure that sound was coming from her. It seemed to rattle around the room. Her mother started crying and got up and left the office.

I was stunned and unsure of my next move. Her head was swaying from side to side and the sound continued to come — softer now, but still there. She gave no indication of even knowing I was there. She began rocking and I was worried she might flop on the floor, but she never did.

I started praying out loud for wisdom. “God what do I do?” I prayed for myself. I asked for all sin to be to be forgiven. And then began to pray for Sarah. I asked that the demon name its self and tell me its purpose. That is what my notes said. That was all I knew. The demon gave a name. It had a foreign sound maybe even mythological ring to it. Certainly one I would never remember, I wasn’t even sure I could pronounce. It said it was there to confuse. Well that was certainly happening.

She immediately stopped rocking as I prayed that the demon be casted to the pit forever and never return to bother her again. “Be bound.” I never again closed my eyes when I was with Sarah. She became calm, controlled, at ease. She stood up, thanked me and walked out of my office where her mother was standing at the door. They embraced and left.

I sat at my desk for 15-20 minutes staring into space and asking God what had just happened. Was it over? Was that all there was to it? If that was it, I sure worried a long time before tackling the problem. But God was talking to me and I had the very strong sense that the door had just cracked open and I didn’t even have my foot in the door yet. I began to cry — sob. I knew God understood my moans and groans. I was frightened for my future. I was frightened for Sarah. I was frightened for all who may become touched for this confusion. More was coming but I still questioned if I was the man.

Before I left I prayed for the rest of the youth who would be exposed to this girl. They needed to be protected what whatever was going to happen. I did not want any of them to be hurt. I wanted her to stop pin poking people who sat near her. I prayed for understanding for everyone who may get caught up in this and I prayed for an early end. This had to stop. “God, please stop this confusion.”

OUIJA BOARDS chapter 142

Sarah had made friends at school with some girls that she called “dark.” They dressed all in black, painted their nails black and dyed their hair black. They were an earlier version of Goths. While Sarah ran with this group, she did not dress or dye her hair like them. She would spend nights at their homes and enjoyed playing on an Ouija board. The dictionary describes that board as “a board printed with letters, numbers, and other signs, to which a planchette or movable indicator points, supposedly in answer to questions from people at a séance.” Some consider the Ouija board a toy but many more consider it a gateway to demonic or evil spirits. I share the latter concern.

Sarah and her friends often asked the board questions and took the answers very seriously. It began to guide their lives. They used it to cause havoc in their classrooms and at their schools. The most important question she asked was, “Am I a witch?” She was pleased with the answer, as were her friends. At times she would go to downtown Vancouver where they would meet with others covens. It was there they hatched the plot to make as many teachers sick as possible on the same day.

Each coven began to make small burlap dolls about 12 inched high stuffed with straw or dried grass. Each doll was marked to represent a specific teacher. At the time the plan was decided, no one knew what, if anything would happen. They had tried curses in the past with some success. They had a couple of dolls representing a couple of teachers they all seemed to dislike. Apparently they had tried to make one of those teachers unable to sit down by puncturing his doll in the rear with pins. They laughed at the results and were pleased that it seemed to work. Only one of the girls always believed the dolls would work. She said her coven took credit for closing their school on the designated day.

I can hardly believe what I was hearing. Now I was listening to a girl telling me she had been part of the experience to make several teachers ill on the same day. This was a first for me. I was getting more nervous and even a little frightened by what I was hearing. I was becoming more and more frightened. Why had God seemed to dump this in my lap? I was not particularly open to would with anyone demon possessed. I spend my early days pleading with God to remove this curse.

I reported to my wife and the church staff what I had heard and asked advice and their help. I got neither from the staff and turned to my wife to talk and pray about the situation. We both felt this was too big to just ignore or pretend it did not exist. There was no doubt in my mind that I had never walked so close to the Lord.  I made sure everything was right with God and that I was living as a pure life, We decided to pursue getting her to pray in Gods name.

The next meeting I had with Sarah was when she said she hated what was happening to her and could not get out of the coven. She hated what they were doing and how they acted and lived. She did not know how to escape. She was in tears. I advised her to cut off all relations immediately. She tried, but did not completely succeed. She did stop going to their homes. She was told that now that she was “in,” she could not get out.

This meeting occurred after trying to deal with her bringing pins to youth group and sticking people next to her. This was becoming a regular thing.  The kids being poked did not think it was funny. Strangely, neither did Sarah. She didn’t know why she did it or so she said. She could not help herself. That was hard to believe. If you really want to stop something, just stop. She believed a demon was making her do it. That was the first time she had suggested there might be demons influencing her.

When praying together after our session I asked her to pray. There was a long silence and I encouraged her again to pray. Then a deep gravely voice came out of her throat and said, “never.” Later the same voice said, “Do not talk to God.” I had read that a demon had only one job. This one gave its name and its job was to prevent prayer. I prayed what I thought might cast out the spirit but that did not happen. This one was back again in a later session.

INITIAL CONTACT chapter 141

I talked with the pastoral staff about possible demon possession. They raised a lot of questions and expressed serious doubts about the situation. It just seemed to strange for all of us. They felt I could handle the initial contact so I proceeded on my own.

Once we were settled in the house I met with Sarah (not her real name). I wanted her to tell me what she perceived was happening. We met in our home so Della would also be present, or at least be able to hear. Because of the kids she wasn’t always in the room, but she was listening.

Sarah and I sat in our living room, she on the sofa and I had pulled the matching chair to face her. She elaborated on her mother’s story, and indicated it was happening nearly every night. Books would fall off her shelves for no reason and at times fly at her as though they were trying to strike her. She could hear voices from her stuff animals telling her to hurt people, or that certain people were planning to hurt her. She had gotten rid of most glass things in her room as many were broken from falling or being thrown. Sometimes things would just float. She told of a time when her blanket rose off her body and floated to the side of the room where it fell into a heap. She continued for nearly an hour giving very specific details of strange things that had happened.

When she seemed to be finished I began asking questions. What time of night were these things occurring? What was her frame of mind? Had she ate anything the may have upset her? Had anything happened at school or with her parents to upset her? I probed friendships, contacts, teachers and anything I could think of at school. I wanted to know about her health both physical and mental. Were there doctors she would give permission to speak to me? I specially went after who else had seen these things. What concerned me most was that neither her mother nor father had seen any of this actually happen. She indicated some friends from school as seen these occurrences, so the questions was it an over active imagination. I seriously wondered.

I prayed with her after our meeting and asked her to pray. She said she couldn’t. Again, could she not pray or would she not pray. I drove her back home and had a look at the room. It was very neat and tidy. I briefly talked with her mother about the last incident and she said it had been a few days ago. I asked if she had ever seen any of these things or heard voices. She said the incidents never lasted very long. By the time she would get into the room, Sarah had the covers over her head was screaming and things were strewn all over the room. She has heard strange voices several times but has never seen anyone in the room. She did not recognize any of the voices.

I went home not really sure what was happening or what was real. The voices concerned me the most. Was it Sarah talking to herself or were these demonic voices? Her mother reported they were often deep and other worldly. I did not know how to determine the validity of anything I was hearing. It seemed beyond me. I was pretty sure I did not have what might be needed to resolve any of these issues. If demonic, it was a spiritual battle that I did not want to enter.

I did dig out my notes from college and reread everything to try and get a firm grasp on demon possession. Della and I began to pray about the situation and try and watch the girl and do some more research.

It was a few days later that the Vancouver Sun ran a story on witch’s covens in the Vancouver high schools. They named some of the schools where covens existed and one was where Sarah attended. They further reported that the covens took credit for shutting some high schools down in a single day when there were more teachers sick than replacements could be found. That made me perk right up. The Vancouver police were taking the issue seriously and investigating the validity of the claims, the paper reported. I needed to talk to Sarah about the witch’s coven in her school. Was she some how connected to that?

THE MOVE chapter 140

It was the next week that the couple with the troubled child caught me again in the hallway to tell me weird things had happened again Saturday night in their daughter’s room. I apologized that I had not contacted their daughter yet, but we had to move that coming week and were getting things together and making arrangements to get what we had out of storage to take to the house in Champlain Heights. The couple wanted to see this thing come to an end and “God had told them,” I could help.

I was still waiting for God to tell me. I was literately petrified. I knew one thing — I need my own life completely clean and pure before I ever tried. It was Della who believed that we should pursue whatever course lay ahead of us in dealing with the girl. But we still had to put it off. I had fears it may take longer than I expected.

We moved in on a Saturday and some of the guys from the youth group came along to help us. Since nearly every thing we owned fit in the family room kitchen and breakfast nook, we took everything downstairs in through the back patio door. Just figured there was more door way room. I don’t know who kept closing the door, but Jim Klassen walked into that door three times (as reported by his brother Dale). We had absolutely nothing to put in the living and dining rooms.

Shortly after moving in we have a gathering of young married couples in the house to show it off. We brought in chairs from the church and still fit 75 people in there. 

There were three bedrooms upstairs and one bath. The bedrooms were huge. The master bedroom fit over the family room and part of the garage.  Next to it was the bathroom and then bedroom #2. We placed Rhonda’s things there. She had a crib, and a dressing table — that was all. It was lost in that huge room. Rods room was over the dining room and part of the living room. With his toys, his room looked a little more like the right space. We were lost in our room as well. All the rooms were connected by the open balcony to the main floor.

There was grass in the front yard, but nothing had been done to the back yard. Didn’t matter. The kids loved to play in the dirt. We caught Rhonda having a snack of dirt one day. There was a planned sidewalk to be placed along the south side of the house to connect our street to the one behind us. It seems to me that back street was Boundary Road, but I could be wrong.

The house was absolutely beautiful, more than we ever expected and way more than we needed. We wanted to hold an open house for the church people to see the place. We figured they owned it and they should see what they own. After having the young couple over there was some jealousy over the house we were living in. Della and I had a hard time understanding that. These people owned their homes; we were little more than squatters. The board did not want an open house. That caused Della some grief as people came all the time to see the house. No one ever called ahead; they just showed up morning, afternoon and evening. She felt compelled to keep the house clean all the time, and hated the inconvenience of it all. It was hard work caring for that large house and two preschool children at the same time.

Sitting in front of the fireplace in the new to us home

      We eventually bought a dining room table and a used sofa and chair with the gift money from Saskatoon. Neither did much for filling the space. It looked better at Christmas when we had the fireplace decorated and a tree in the front window. It still looked like an empty concert hall.

      All in all we loved the place and did our best to take care of it. There were some small items left unfinished. I wanted to finish  it, but I am no carpenter and to match the rest of the house, it needed a skilled builder.

Rod seemed to always know when it was Saturday.
He would get up early, go down stairs, pull up
his little chair and watch cartoons.

Lee Tracy, Rodney, and Rhonda
on the back of the Dodge.

STRANGE ENCOUNTER chapter 139

Getting in and out of Tenth Avenue Church was a challenge as was parking. Most people parked on the street. With three other churches within one block of the church the streets were crowded on a Sunday morning. There was a small parking lot in the back of the church that was always full. There were five primary entrances; the front doors were the most direct into the sanctuary. They were located on the corner of Tenth Avenue and Ontario. The church had a long lobby running the width of the church. On the north side was stairs to the basement and an exit to the parking lot. That door was beside the kitchen.

One could exit along the south side and behind the platform and down the stairs. This was also the main entrance to the offices during the week. Because you could not see the street from the offices one had to buzz the office to be let into the church.

At the bottom of those stairs one could turn right to the center of the building, turn left again toward the “new addition” (the gym) which had exits on both sides of the building; one to the street and one to the parking lot. There was no primary way to leave and no clear place to greet people as they left the church. Many times the staff just left like everyone else.

The most unusual contact I made with a family and the one that led to consuming a great deal of my time and focus while at Tenth Avenue occurred at the top of the stairs behind the platform. I had been to my office and was about to go down stairs and meet up with my wife and children when a middle-aged couple stopped me to talk. Their greeting was direct and to the point. “Do you believe in demons?”

That caught me off guard. I actually had to think about that because I had no context to the question. Why were they asking? Was this some sort of test? What did they want to know?

I had heard several missionaries speak about demon possession during my years at Canadian Bible College. A professor talked about it in some class at Canadian Bible College and I had at least taken notes, but I had only one brief encounter with the issue while in Saskatoon, and I would consider it rather minor.

My contact was at a mid-week prayer meeting with the youth. It was an unusual night as only two kids showed up. We talked for a while and Bonnie Peters mentioned that her friend, the one she had with her at the prayer meeting, could not pray the name of Jesus. We sat and talked about that for a while. I had remembered that was one of the signs of demon possession or oppression. To be honest, I never had those two issues real clear in my mind until that night. Oppression can happen to believers while possession can only occur with non-believers. I was hesitant to identify what was happening as having anything to do with demons, but I ultimately did. Bonnie and I prayed that night that God would deliver her friend from the oppression blocking his prayers. Amazingly (at least a surprise to me), he was freed that night.

So standing in the hall behind the platform I tentatively said yes. I was then worried about where that was going to lead. They told me a story I had only heard told by missionaries.

They had a fifteen-year-old daughter whom they believed was demon possessed. I swallowed hard. Things moved in her bedroom without being touched. Stuff fell off of shelves of their own accord, curtains blew with the window closed, stuffed animals made noises and jumped from their displays. She could see demons in her room at night. They went on in great detail. It was not happening every night, but they were all frightened. They wanted help and they wanted it from me because I said that I believed in demons. What was God saying to me? What was He doing to me? I felt like Moses, “I cannot speak.” I genuinely had no idea what I could do. The entire issue was beyond me.

I agreed to meet with her and talk. Meanwhile I was going to call for help.

PLANNING TO ATTEND LIFE ’72 chapter 138

We decided to get a group and go to Green Lakes, Wisconsin for LIFE ’72. A plan was laid out to help as many kids as needed financial assistance to attend. We did not have a better plan, so we began to gear up to collect bottles and papers and do it for as many weekends as necessary. We needed trucks and trailers to go with the various groups who would be knocking on doors to ask (read beg) for any bottles or newspapers they might be willing to give.

Fortunately those were still the days when people would open their doors, listen to the kids and help. We explained to the people what we were raising money for and what we needed. Strangely, there were occasions when we were even given money. We never expected that. We had a simple system that rewarded people who actually helped with the collecting process. It was all related to hours spent on the job. We were determined that enough would be made to pay the complete way of everyone that wanted the help. I think someone tried to figure out how many bottles that would require. I have no idea, but it was many truck and trailer loads.

There was a lady at the church who knew the owners of the Seven Seas restaurant and made an arrangement for us to pick up their empty bottle each week. It was a good stop for us as it always filled a trailer. The restaurant was a bit of a surprise to some of the crew. How could they sell so much liquor in one week that we could fill a trailer every week? Then there was the smell. None were used to that. There were some times we made two trips. At the Seven Seas we made our pick up on Monday after school, We drove directly from the restaurant to the location on Boundary Road where we sold the bottles, smelly, but a good haul for us. One helper commented that we were making a pile of money off the drunks. It was funny at the time. Maybe you had to be there.

We also had a box set up in the back parking lot at the church for people to bring their papers and bottles. We had to take the papers for sale during the week. That meant we had to store them over the weekend. They were stored at the Drewlo apartment building. One Saturday as Ken Remple was helping the gang pickup papers he lost his load and tied up traffic. Not funny at the time, but later…

I had a hitch put on my white ’68 Dodge Polaris and drove the streets every week. Ken was a gift from God. He drove a great deal of the time. Others pitched in from time to time. We mapped out the city and never went back to the same area twice. Each Saturday was a two to three hour shift. Another crew helped with the Seven Seas bottle pickup during the week and yet another crew took the items from the church to sell. I appreciated the men who helped in this project with their time and vehicles.

Dale Klassen wrote, “Paper Drives, I think some of the adult volunteers, meaning those who would subject their vehicles to wear and tear were Ken Remple, Peter Geisbrecht and Amroyd Holmlund. Some of the youth participants were Rick Remple, Greg Neufeld, Gord Jarvis, Ron Hoskyn, and Debbie Hallam (who took offence when collecting at one of the thousands of doors we knocked and she was called a boy). During the times of the paper/bottle drives my brother Jim and I would work all Friday night as janitors at Simon Frasier University mainly cleaning the pub, get off work at 7:30 am and then go on the paper drives.” And these two guys were there every week.

I wrote a news sheet every week or two updating what was happening in regards to the upcoming Life Conference, and reporting who had volunteered that week, the hours they worked and the money they were earning. I wanted to encourage others to join us on the weekends.

It really was an amazing experience. We earned enough to help everyone who needed help, paid the full Greyhound bus rental for everyone and had enough money to buy a few meals on the trip there and back. We also bought everyone a sailor hat. It was our connection to a port city and a way to keep the group connected in the crowd of nearly 5000 teens who attend LIFE ’72.

We earned this all pennies at a time. Hard work, but a great bond.

A FEW THOUGHTS chapter 137

I fully expected to find an active Bible quiz team in Vancouver. After all, I had competed against them for the past three years in Regina and at Internationals. Same girls, same coach! But they were nowhere to be found. I asked around and could not find anyone who knew who they were. Some remembered there had been a quiz team, but nothing more. They did not appear in the church records. I could not figure that out at all.

Not the Vancouver CSB guys

What I did find was a very active Christian Service Brigade with a group of guys as excited about floor hockey as anywhere else in Canada. It had to be the indoor equivalent to that grand Canadian sport — hockey. Ron Hoskyn was the sergeant, and Gord Jarvie was one of the corporals. Tenth had a great gym and plenty of room to play. The guys got very thirsty scrambling around for that puck so we rewarded the top squad; the one would with the most achievements, shares, and best behavior with a coke at the end of the night. That was a huge motivator; of course only one squad would win which meant most would go home dehydrated. Well, there was water. I think we got the pop form Bob Remple who worked for coke.

I did not teach a Sunday school class regularly, but often filled in for one adult class. I remember an on going conflict over a comment Ken Sugarman made one morning. Ken was an offensive lineman for the BC Lions (CFL) who I saw as living his faith in the real world. He was not living in the protected and rarefied world of isolated Christians. He casually mentioned that he usually went with teammates after a game to a bar to wind down. He did not drink, but he enjoyed being with the guys and did not want to be standoffish. I could not believe the reaction. He was jumped on for going to a bar. Jesus ate with publicans and sinners, what was the problem? Jesus turned water into a wine, what was the problem? Also, and I did not want to bring it up so didn’t, but the word was that pastor Brooks attended the wedding of a prominent members daughter and got into the wrong punch bowl. One was spiked and one was not. No, I did not hear if he was tipsy. I heard it from several sources but who knows the truth.

I jumped to his defense and as gently as possible attempted to get the class to see that Ken was being salt and light. He was doing the right thing. A few came around, but many were not so sure a Christian ought to ever be found in a bar. I understood their perceptions as I grew up in that same environment but wanted them to see a much larger world, a world where believers mixed and reached out to their friends and neighbors. It was no secret that several church attendees were drinkers, why come down so hard on a man trying to witness to his teammates. Was it because he was a prominent member of the community?

Ken and I were only acquaintances, but I admired him for how he lived. When I did leave the church and received a farewell love offering, more than 50% of that gift came from Ken. Who gave what was to be a secret, but Kay sent me a list of who gave what so we could send thank you notes. Subtly, she also wanted me to know who gave nothing because of a great deal of hoopla from one person who promised what he did not deliver. Della and I only laughed. We were not surprised at all.

There was a sliding glass window between my office and the secretarial office. Pastor Brooks was the only pastor in the Canadian Alliance still on a love office salary basis. He had no fixed salary and what he received did not go through the church books. No one really knew what he was making. While that was how all pastors were paid in the early days of the C&MA in Canada, those days were over, except here. There was a person who came every week to open offering envelopes and remove the money marked “pastor” They sat on the other side of the window from my desk facing my office. I could not see what was being done without standing up, but I could hear them talking to themselves. I had ideas, but never knew for sure.

ADJUSTING chapter 136

It took some time to get used to commuting, but I did. The board decided that we would move to the house in Vancouver near Boundary Road on the boarder of Burnaby in a place called Champlain Heights. It would be a straight shot down Kingsway and not nearly as far. But that was about four months off.

I often had lunch with Al. If we went out is was usually to Captain Cooks or White Spot. When we brought a lunch we would eat in the kitchen with Bert and Kay. Mr. Brooks always went home when he did not have a luncheon appointment. Al and I had those as well, but most people did not work downtown.

The Port Coquitlam house. We usually entered the
house from the back where there was room to park
and stairs to climb.

Della became more relaxed about our borrowed home and began inviting people for Sunday dinner like we had always done in our first church. We would get to know people this way and it was easier to have them to our place than take two small children to their home. Della was an incredible cook and hostess. Meals were always terrific, so it was a surprise when we arrived home one Sunday with guests in tow and the smell of roast beef in the oven did not enter our noses as we opened the door. Della was in a panic and rushed up stairs to see what was wrong leaving two children at the bottom of the stairs with me trying to figure out what was wrong. The timer did not start the oven. After turning some burners on she realized we did not have a stove. We checked everything, the plugs, the breaker. The stove was dead. There was no meal ready and we were not going to be cooking anything that day. Worse yet for my wife the hostess, we had nothing to serve. I told her to greet our guests and I rushed out to Kentucky Fried Chicken for a meal in a bucket. It wasn’t what she wanted, but it filled the bill. To top it off, Rodney said he liked it. He never said he liked the roast beef. He got to hold the chicken leg in his hands. Fun!

We did have trouble with Rodney at church within our first month there. As we headed to his Sunday school class one morning, he announced in very strong terms that he did not want to go. Oh great, what now? He could put up a fight when we wanted too. We were headed to a temper tantrum. One of the teachers met us at the door and put it in perspective. Apparently another little boy bit him the Sunday before. For him, going to church meant he was going to be bitten. While we wished we have known that the week before so some preparation would have been worked on, Della decided to stay with him and “protect him.” It never happened again and he and the boy became playmates.

Wednesday night was prayer meeting and everyone met together and then broke up into smaller prayer groups. I met with the youth. I had a consistent group of 4-6. Usually in attendance were Heidi, Paul McConnell, Jim and Dale Klassen, and some others from time to time. I thought youth group was going to be tough to get a group together. We usually met at the church but eventually began meeting in a few different homes. I guess if you lived in the greater Vancouver area you took travel for granted.

I began working promoting LIFE conference in Green Lakes, Wisconsin. I knew it might be hard sell. It was the following summer and we began picking away at it ten months in advance. I didn’t know what the plan was yet, but it was clear several of the group were going to need financial help. A few expressed interest and we talked with them about fund raising possibilities. I don’t remember who suggested it, but collecting bottles and newspapers to sell, came up. While it was a good idea, it would be a pile of work. Pop bottles were 2ç each other bottles were 2¢ and paper — I don’t remember what they were paying. Maybe $5-$7 a ton It wasn’t much. This would take time. Not just the kid’s time, but mine. When would we do this, where would we do this, who would do it and how would we figure out what kind of help each kid would get? I needed to think about that idea and talk it over with Della. She would be part of my decision making process.

All other bottles 2¢

Pop bottles were sold for 2¢ each

Paper sold by the ton, but where would we store it until we got a ton?